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Is “organic” food really worth the money?

mensfitness.com — With food prices on the rise, it ’s not so easy to pay more for organic choices. Here’s a breakdown of which organic foods are worth buying and which are not.

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  • UniversalNews, on 08/27/2008, -8/+15That's a good point about peeling vs. eating the skin of the fruit or vegetable.
    • KINGMagazine, on 08/27/2008, -1/+11that's why i eat potato skins
    • Zenham, on 08/28/2008, -2/+8For many vegetables and fruits, the skin is the most nutritious part.

      Beyond that, unless your fruits grow with plastic skin, anything sprayed on the outside has the potential for absorption.
    • xtraa, on 08/28/2008, -4/+5One can see what organic food is really worth, when we take bread as an example: You pay more for organic bread but it takes much longer, until you will get hungry again. So it isn't more expensive but it is more healthy and in most cases you will have a better taste.

      I know, americans don't know real bread like in europe. But it is worth a try, if you manage to find a store where you can buy it.
      • grassiness, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Absolutely true!
      • xtraa, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Who the ***** hell diggs this down and for what!?
      • someology, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Some few of us have had homemade bread enough to know the difference, and you're quite right. Mass produced light bread is convenient, but not nearly so satisfying.
      • pernicat, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1I fail to see how organic bread will make it take longer for you to get hungry again. Can you explain how that might work, or back it up with some evidence that it does?
      • Zenham, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2@pernicat:

        "Organic" breads are typically produced with whole grain flours which are significantly higher in fiber, and provide a good amount of bulk in the digestive tract. The components that are digestible are also less processed, and usually coarser in grind, which means they aren't processed as rapidly in your system, leading to you feeling full for a longer time.
      • pernicat, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1What does organic have to do with it? You can still buy non-organic whole grain breads cheaper then their organic counterparts. You might as well just say that eating whole grain breads will make it take longer for you to get hungry again.
      • xtraa, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1@pernicat:

        For example: Take the industrial gardening tomatoe. It is big, red and looking good. But the taste is like water, not tomatoe. If you compare that to the smaller, not so good looking tomatoes from, let's say, your grannies garden, you will probably have small, but very delicious tomatoes with more vitamins.

        The industries choice is like simple marketing of a candy bar package: The more it seems to look good, the more we are willing to buy it at the first look. Also, you have more tomatoe for the same input. And as long as it is non-toxic (unlike Homers Tomaccoes :D), the industry doesn't really care about what plant breeding has more vitamins or healthy ingredients as long as it is more productive.

        But it is also on uns, the consumers: If you have the choice, you would most likely choose the bigger, better looking tomatoe that is even more cheap, instead of the little one with much more taste and vitamins.

        We are trained to think that better looking equals better quality. This works with politicians and with products as well.

        Same with grain. There are also many different plant breedings, and you will notice the difference only if you see what happens after you eat them :D

    • topbob, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4You do realize how much cheaper energy wise it is to grow things organically.
      No chemicals used means energy is not spent in the production, transportation, and nothing harmful to leak into the ground and into water. So anyone who thinks not buying organic is being pretty ignorant, only thinking about how the fruit or vegetable will effect them.
  • njunderground, on 08/27/2008, -15/+24man i work near a whole foods and that place has a line out the door. i'll stick to my kraft macaroni and cheese...
    • satanguy, on 08/28/2008, -5/+6ewww
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Please tell me it's the kind with the "liquid" cheese pouch and not just Easy Mac.....
      • Frozo, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Oh the liquid cheese is sooo much better. Gimme a break lol
    • hwy9nightkid, on 08/28/2008, -4/+2you know your eating old cigarettes right?
  • TheTravelShow, on 08/27/2008, -13/+7Good job
  • jgatz, on 08/27/2008, -6/+38have you ever tried shopping at whole foods
    half the stuff you can find at a normal grocery store for about half the price
    I live about a block from one and due to time I will often shop there
    its literally double the cost of shopping organic at a regular supermarket even if your getting there certified organic products
    more like whole wallet amirite
    • barfooz, on 08/28/2008, -9/+18But that's what America's all about. Finding a sucker (in this case, rich bleeding heart liberals) and milking him for all he's worth.

      I celebrate Whole Foods and their nefarious organic ways.
      • hwy9nightkid, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3why you gotta throw liberal/conservative ***** in there.. old blow hard conservatives love a good Alaskan salmon too
    • BossKey, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4There are times when you get what you pay for. Organic does not automatically mean better, but when it means sustainable topsoil nutrients, less pesticide residues and runoff, and better taste, well it's hard to argue against that.

      Remember, when you absolutely positively shop based on the lowest possible price...what you end up with is China making and growing everything, and all that entails.
      • Kronos6948, on 08/28/2008, -6/+4Funny, I've had organic beef and regular beef, and the organic was tougher, drier, and less flavorful than the regular. And, as far as fruits and vegetables go, I couldn't taste a difference.

        I worked for Whole Foods for a year and a half and had exposure to all of this stuff.
      • CRCulver, on 08/28/2008, -0/+6"Organic does not automatically mean better, but when it means sustainable topsoil nutrients, less pesticide residues and runoff, and better taste, well it's hard to argue against that."

        What about when it means an unsustainable farming model that keeps rich people feeling good but couldn't possibly support the hungry people of the Third World?
      • darkstar949, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@Kronos6948 - Meat can be hit or miss even on the organic side of things, you can get an extremely good steak raised through non-organic methods or you can get a bad one. The same thing happens with the organic free-range meat.

        If you take a look at how some of the high-end beef such as Kobe is raised, it is very similar to how organic free-range is raised. Pretty much the only thing the organic free-range chicken and beef is doing is going back to the more traditional ways of raising chicken and beef.
      • Kronos6948, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@darkstar

        True on the hit or miss, but I was one of the meat cutters behind the counter at Whole Foods. I also prepped the samples for the customers. And, as any good chef is wont to do, I always taste what I'm cooking. I'd say 75% of the time, the organic just wasn't as good as the conventional.

        As far as Kobe beef is concerned, you have to remember that the cows are fed very well, as well as being massaged. They're also given alcohol to relax their musculature.

        When you mention free range, you have to remember that "Free Range" doesn't necessarily mean that they're all free roaming. To be labeled as such, they just don't need to be cramped up in cages. Check out the USDA guidelines on Free Range.
      • pernicat, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Food that is organically grown does not necessarily mean it is sustainable, in some cases organic has a negative effect on sustainability. Organic is not grown with SYNTHETIC pesticides, natural pesticides can still be used. Just because something is natural does not mean it is better for your body or the environment. It is arguable that organic taste any better.
      • BossKey, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@ everybody

        Well, that's why I phrased it "when it means..." all those things. When organic does not mean better land practices etc., organic doesn't have the value. When it does, it's worth it. All I'm saying is to keep the pressure on to maintain standards that make organic worth something.

        As far as what organic can do for the Third World, don't be so shortsighted. Farmers in developing countries sometimes go deep into debt because of the pesticide, petrol-based fertilizer, and in increasing cases corporate-mandated seed required by "conventional" (read: only in the last few decades) farming. If a farmer can grow crops using natural pest control and other organic methods, well, that helps the poor. Organic doesn't have to mean snobby western liberals buying expensive food. It can simply mean knowing how to grow food without extreme dependence on Middle East resources at corporate rates.
    • rabidbob, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Well regular supermarkets are pretty bloody expensive regardless. I don't know about the US but in the UK we have plenty of farm shops and they're almost always better value than the supermarket.
    • skyz, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4i shop at whole foods too

      with the rising cost of produce it often doesn't make that much difference

      i buy my broccoli organic it tastes better it looks better also spinach and lettuce

      organic fresh ginger vs supermarket the difference is obvious the supermarket ginger looks dead and has little juice

      and stoneyfield french vanilla yogurt is divine

      but mostly i buy from the farmer's market as much stuff as is local

      living in miami we have tomatoes strawberries pineapples papayas and mangoes as well as avocados
  • AmyVernon, on 08/27/2008, -8/+28Interesting. The milk surprised me. It did address the issue of antibiotics in the milk, but what about the growth hormones? Milk is one of the few organic items I do buy regularly.
    • Noein, on 08/28/2008, -2/+4And it only applies to low fat and skim milk, seems if you prefer whole milk like me, it's still worth it to get organic.
      • dema, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Or you could just buy skim and melt a few sticks of butter into it...
    • derbestemann, on 08/28/2008, -7/+7if youre too old to suck your mothers *****, you shouldnt drink milk anyway
      • Taiyoryu, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2milk isn't just for drinking but is also an ingredient in cooking
    • EvilBob0, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Non organic milk is hit or miss on the quality and taste. Organic is very consistent. I'll pay extra for damn good tasting milk.
      • JigoroKano, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2That probably has more to do with it being ultra-pasteurized than anything else.
      • skyz, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2i took a college course in nutrition

        the professor said she did not drink milk because the contaminant the FDA measured was pus

        like rat hairs in peanut butter

        that was it for me
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -0/+6You guys are missing an extremely important point. You have to take into the account the whole production process, not only the product itself!!!1!
      1) Organic cows get lots of organically grown food, which uses way less pesticides and fertilizers which then do not pollute your local nature, your food chain and your water supplies. There are lots of external costs to "conventional farming" like increased costs for cleaning your drinking water, increased costs for treatment of allergies and other environmentally induced diseases etc.
      2) Organic cows have a way better life than their "conventional" counterparts. Have a little empathy!
      3) With buying organics, the likelihood of your money supporting family farms and the local economy is way higher than when you directly throw your money at conventional agro-business.
      4) Think about buyin local and seasonal as well. Be the Change!
      • MrTinker, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3I hope people read your comment, because the article missed this huge point.

        Also, if you buy non-organic milk, I hope you like puss!
    • skyz, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3i buy silk soymilk and organic real milk yogurt

      i wouldn't dream of drinking 'regular' milk

      i'm against the cruelty in animal food production on an industrial scale

      how good can milk be from a poor cow who has never so much a smelled green grass never felt the sun

      • dbixler, on 08/28/2008, -5/+1I'm hoping you're one of those people that are refused fertility treatments when that time comes so my kids don't have to share the planet with your kids if they turn out like you.

        "The next time you have a thought, lose it." -- Ron White
  • jcorn1, on 08/27/2008, -4/+10This is worth thinking about, still weighing those pros and cons.
  • misspiggymess, on 08/27/2008, -4/+21Good info, organic is not always worth it. However locally grown can mean much more sometimes.
    • ReidFleming, on 08/28/2008, -0/+6The problem is that the article is very short-sighted and only focuses on one aspect of 'organic', residue on the food itself. There are many other ways which could directly or indirectly impact humans. Such as, how does the run-off from a non organic farm affect the local lake that it drains into? Is it bad for swimmers? Is it bad for the fish that get eaten by people?
  • DeuceDiggalow, on 08/27/2008, -19/+20Organic is worth the minor extra costs. Big business agriculture pollutes our world with pesticides and foods are often tested positive for cancer causing chemicals. Not good.
    • MattNF, on 08/28/2008, -7/+9[citation needed]
      • r3negadeX, on 08/28/2008, -2/+10http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/health/human.htm 

        It is a fact that there are pesticides used that are toxic carcinogens. As stated in the article, however, depending on the toxicity and exposure of the pesticide, it may still be considered "safe" by the EPA. This is debatable. I'm no health food nut (my mom works at a health food store, so I am somewhat knowledgeable, however), but I don't think it hurts to be wary.
      • plasmoske, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5just look up monsanto
        and youll find the truth
      • askantik, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Yeah. Not to sound like an *****, but anyone who doesn't know who Monsanto is has no right to even make a decision that organic foods are "*****" or a "scam." I'm not saying greenwashing isn't very prevalent and companies don't try to rip you off, but people should do their research.
    • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3So? Apples contain cyanide. The real question is do they contain dangerous levels of these.
      • arpad, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1No, the question is, are you rich enough and self-centered enough to insist on indulging your prejudices like r3negadeX above.
      • r3negadeX, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2What prejudices? Please explain.
  • craftyguy, on 08/28/2008, -18/+15"Is “organic” food really worth the money?"
    Umm, actually, no it's not worth the money..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2004/may/06 ...
  • ColtRevolvers, on 08/28/2008, -13/+9Interesting article
    however I'm not sure what to think since it did not mention
    Obama, McCain or the Iphone 3g
    • SyntraFTW, on 08/28/2008, -5/+3*****' thing SUCKS!
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3Nor did it come from huffpost.....hmm. what to do...
  • MorganMghee, on 08/28/2008, -9/+21Yes, they are worth it. And, the more we buy them the cheaper they get.
    • BaseballGuyCAA, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5Doesn't this violate the law of Supply & Demand? It would seem that the more we buy them, the more the quantity demanded for the product rises, the higher the price goes.
      • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4No. Increased consumption = increased production up to a point. Before it reaches that point however the increase in production yields an increased supply. Supply and demand is not as simple as supply and demand.
      • Kronos6948, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2@ sinbot

        Supply and demand seems to be working for the Wii.
      • derbestemann, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1in the short run, prices are sticky, so production will increase to meet consumer demand. in the long run though, prices will rise.
      • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1@Kronos6948, that's really not a good analogy.

        @derbestemann, Why will prices rise in the long run? Saying something out of the blue like that is akin to saying "Oh you'll led a long healthy life doing exercise. Except one day mercury will fall out of your nose." It doesn't make sense.
      • derbestemann, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0you just don't know the first thing about macroeconomics, sinbot
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Exactly. And it´s not about supply and demand, it's about increases in productivity, i.e. decreasing production costs per unit.

      These will be achieved in two ways:

      1) effects of scale: When produced in higher quantities, production costs sink because machines, land and labour can be used with greater efficiency. Just think about initial investments in machinery, training your staff and logistics, i.e. getting the goods from producer to the customers. The more you produce, the lesser the costs per unit.

      2) R&D: Yes, the organic sector develops innovative, cost-cutting innovations in growing methods etc. all along. Think about the billions and billions of research that has been conducted in the "conventional" sector... We are just seeing the beginning of that in organics.
  • ajames01, on 08/28/2008, -9/+15I worked at whole foods/whole paycheck for about 6 months (in produce). Other then being prejudice assholes as all the top "team leaders" were... the fact is that most of the "organic" food co-mingles with the non-organic at some point, defeating the whole purpose. They only work on this when they assume an inspection is coming.

    Many of those who also end up spending all the extra money on their useless organic fruits also put them in the same bag as the non organic which again is basically defeating the point.
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+6ridiculous. carrying them in the same bag defeats which point exactly?
      1) organics is not about your own petty health alone. It's about finding ways of production that can sustain life on this planet for a bit longer than your short-sighted ego is able to see...
      2)Wash your fruits before you eat them! just thinkin...basic hygiene considerations?
    • EggNogIceCream, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Spot on James. I work at a produce market in Northern California ( in produce), and we recently labeled the sinks organic only and conventional only, because we just had an inspection yesterday. At any other times everyone washes organic lettuce with conventional lettuce ( and any other produce) in the same sink, and them moves them around in the same plastic tubs without cleaning the tubs between use.
  • atdigg, on 08/28/2008, -10/+37I think this misses an important point, it's not about what you eat, the point is that organic is a sustainable way to grow fruits and vegetable. Non-organic means using pesticides and even if they don't reach your body directly through your mouth they do go somewhere, they pollute waterways and land and most likely end up in the food chain somehow.

    But of course, what do I talk about, the air and the ocean are INFINITE and we can dump whatever we want and don't care, right?
  • dylandaring, on 08/28/2008, -3/+18My advice: find a local farmer, find out how he grows his produce, buy local. Certified organic doesn't mean anything in Mexico where half our produce is grown.
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1I like this in theory, and, in more rural areas this is possible, but it's kinda hard if you live in a larger city.
      • askantik, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Are you kidding? It's a LOT easier to find a farmer's market in a larger city than a small town. Atlanta has a ***** giant farmer's market, and I live in rural Mississippi and there's one or two tiny markets/sellers in a 100 mile radius.
    • plasmoske, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1whats your advice on GMO?
    • EndouOuto, on 08/29/2008, -0/+0I avoid mexican stuff like the plague, they irrigate
      fields with raw sewage
  • TheLoneWolf071, on 08/28/2008, -8/+11I hear all the arguments

    "Oh, I like to support the little guy..." almost all organic food is grown by big companies, running under a subsidiary
  • TheWorm, on 08/28/2008, -13/+23Organic fruits and vegetables simply have better flavor.
    • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -7/+8It's true. Not sure why you were being dugg down. Tomatoes and beef are two very good points where organic simply tastes better than non-organic. Though the implication with organic beef is that it isn't kept in a factory. Many other fruits and vegetables also taste much better when grown organically.
      • Kronos6948, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4I disagree. I worked for Whole Foods, and have had organic beef and veggies. The veggies tasted the same to me, and the beef actually tasted worse. It was tougher and drier than conventional beef.
      • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2organic meat is tougher and drier? Probably you're simply not used to cooking real meat anymore ;) Mine is soft and juicy, simply delicious - most of the time :)

        I regularly buy organic meat, bring it to barbecues and let my friends and family do the comparison. Sometimes we even do blindfolded tests. They rarely fail. Sometimes people even complain that the organic one tastes too intensive for them, too much "like animal", which, of course, is the way it's supposed to taste :)
      • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Kronos6948, if you can't taste the difference you are either lying or your tastebuds simply don't work. Also working for Whole Foods does not make you an authority on organic foods, it simply means you worked there.
    • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -5/+9Sounds like a placebo effect to me. You expect the organic food to taste better so it does.
      • TheWorm, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1No, I've eaten organic food since I was really young so I have no expectations. Compare conventional steamed broccoli to organic. Not even close.
      • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1It tastes better in part because it has less water in it and in part because it doesn't have chemical fertilizers changing the taste. Some foods you won't notice a difference. Some foods you will notice a huge difference.
      • Obelia, on 08/30/2008, -0/+1I accidentally ate some grapes once that were contaminated by pesticides. It's one of the vilest tastes ever, and even the smallest amount takes hours to leave your tastebuds.
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2true. Organic meat e.g. contains much less water...same holds for many fruits and vegetables. That's because in "conventional" farming all kinds of methods (fertilizers, hormones etc). are used to speed up the growth process, which results in more water and less nutrition and taste.
    • JigoroKano, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Locally grown produce tastes better because it's riper and fresher.

      Organic produce has a much higher chance of being locally grown... but aside from that it doesn't taste test better or have more nutrients. Those things have been studied.
      • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Ever wondered who can afford paying for those studies and buying politicians who oversee the state-sponsored studies? Multi-billion-$ heavily subsidised agro-business or idealistic freaky hippie family organic farmers?

        I do the test with tomatoes regularly and with ever changing audiences. Blindfolded organic vs. conventional. Rarely fails. I do agree though, that there are some - usually quite costly - high-quality varieties of non-organic crops too. but you'll have to pay for that extra as well...
      • JigoroKano, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Scientists in academia do the studies. No corporations pay for them.

        Is your experiment well controlled? Are your tomatoes from the same farm, grown and harvested at the same time?

        If you bought them in the grocery store, then the organic tomato probably came from a local farm and is riper and fresher.
      • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1no corporations pay? r u kidding? if u had the slightest clue about how academia functions these days you would know that universities and individual researchers strongly depend on corporate and private sponsorship. u DO NOT want to interefere with their interests unless u have a really good backup career alternative. Also: take a look at the entanglement of big corporations with the FDA and similar institutions, let alone the politicians on whose support all research institutions depend. just sayin...

        regarding the setup of my experiment your objections are - of course - fully justified, from a purely scientific standpoint that is, and IF looking at the end product alone. But the whole point of buying organics - besides the direct environmental and health impacts - is changing the corporate environment they are produced and selled in. If buying organic provides me with local products and fresher fruits then that's one up for organics! Also: organics and non-organic crops are seldomly produced on the same farm. True organic farmers design the whole production process around the goal of low environmental impact, which includes closed cycle local resource management, such as feeding live stock with own crops, using their manure for soil improvemnet etc... so the other design fault of my "experiment" is actually due to one of the major advantages of organic farming ;)
      • JigoroKano, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1I work in academia and have never been supported by a corporation. I suggest you do some research.
      • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1lucky you :) It does depend a bit on which field u work in (and the country you're in of course) The more fundamental ur research is, the more free u may be. The more it leans towards the applied side, the more prone to corporate influence u will become. Don't kid yourself, u know what i'm talkin about. If not, read this for a start (contains further links): http://discovermagazine.com/2007/oct/sciences-wors ...
      • JigoroKano, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1This is all irrelevant anyhow because the nutrient study came from Denmark and was completely government funded.
  • brstilson, on 08/28/2008, -8/+8Organic food may be free of harmful pesticides, but they are also far more likely to have harmful bacteria on their surfaces.
    • sinbot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Some veggies like spinach may have that drawback if grown in cow manure. Any other veggies, for th most part, have that potential mitigated if you wash your food first which you ought to do with organic or non-organic produce.
      • ReidFleming, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1And the spinach problem was exacerbated by the way we Americans like to get our leafy vegetables, now -- all pre-packaged and "safe". On the off-chance that some people don't know, a localized contamination might well have stayed contained to a handful of spinach plants and may have affected only a couple of people -- if at all as some would have been cooked. Instead, large amounts were thrown together and spread the contamination around and then the spinach got put into convenient bags, thereby letting many more people join in the fun.
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2um....ever hear your mom tell you when you were a kid..."Wash that apple before you eat it!!" That applies to organics also. If it came from a farm, there may have been dirt somewhere around there...and some of it could have ended up on your food.
    • Wonderama, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2And they're grown on smaller, less efficient farms so the net negative effect to the environment is most likely more harmful than from a big "agribusiness",
    • JigoroKano, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Organic farmers must use bacteria for their pesticides rather than chemicals.

      These particular bacteria don't harm humans but they have had problems with other insects and were a suspect for the honey bee problem.

      There is also the slim chance that these bacteria could mutate to live in the human gut... which would be very bad.
  • montanask8, on 08/28/2008, -5/+0I think that the data contained within is usefull and I appreciate it.
  • mike17032, on 08/28/2008, -10/+7Of course not, its just a marketing scheme.
  • lopla, on 08/28/2008, -10/+4Ahhhh, gotta love "organic" wether is soaked in alzheimer inducing copper or soaked in fertility destroying pyrethrum. MMmmm mmmmm good!
  • lordterrin, on 08/28/2008, -3/+25buried for being an absolutely retarded article. It doesn't give any information on WHY organic is worth it/not worth it. It's like a puff piece for people to visit the website. Can we get some real news back on digg please? kthx
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3Like articles praising Obama and demonizing McCain?
  • leladax, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Genetically modified foods are allowed under the organic umbrella.
  • OBAMABIDEN2008, on 08/28/2008, -10/+2Yes organic food are good. I've been much healthier since ive been eating them.
    • ajames01, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5When was the last time you got that mole checked out?
      • OBAMABIDEN2008, on 08/28/2008, -2/+0haha, very funny. I guess you just like making fun of random people for no good reason?
    • DickyT83, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4You, sir, are organically incorrect.
  • brainflakes, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5It's one thing to talk about residue on the end product, but what about the whole production cycle? I'd hope that organic farming was better for the environment, and especially meat would you rather eat chicken/pork etc. that's been kept in a small cage all it's life living in squalor or one that's been grown freerange and fed only natrual foods?
  • prguitarman, on 08/28/2008, -7/+14"Organic" is just a trendy phase. It's the same exact thing as "Going green". I actually went to a Whole Foods for the first time about a week ago and it was probably the grossest and most insulting shopping experience in my life. First of all, the people there were stuck up and very snobby. They literally think they're better than you just because they're shopping there! The soaps smelled absolutely foul, and they had rows upon rows of raw meats and soggy vegetables just sitting out in the open with no sneeze-guards, so anybody could just walk up and infect the entire table with Hepatitis, or something. That, and the prices were ridiculous. I'll stick to Wal-Mart and Target, thank you very much.
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3trust me. It's all a matter of rational choice. In just a couple of years, there will be no such thing as non-organic farming anymore. That's because organic farming is the only method that can be sustained over an indefinite period of time. Agro-business regularly overuses the soil, water and air, which leads to gradual degradation/depletion of natural ressources and systems. We need intact eco-systems for our own survival. Agro-business destroys them. So it will be either organic or no farming at all.

      btw: did u know that the synthetic fertilizer that is used in non-organic agro-business is produced using the energy of fossil fuels? We literally pump oil on our fields... see what i mean?
    • NoShelterHere, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3They think there better than you because they're shopping there, the same place you are shopping at the time? That simply does not make sense, it seems the issue is all in your head.
  • ErickStevenson, on 08/28/2008, -2/+14Eat what you want and can afford... people are ***** starving because they have no ***** food to eat and we are here trying to choose if I should eat an apple with or without the skin. I'm just glad I have something to ***** eat.
  • se7endaytheory7, on 08/28/2008, -2/+12I love whole foods. Lots and Lots of MILF'S there!
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Dugg for your honesty! But are THEY free range organics?
    • skyz, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2the one on south beach looks like a model convention

      if i were looking for a date i'd hang out there more

      go for lunch and linger

  • dvsbastard, on 08/28/2008, -4/+15One of my weekend hobbies is going into whole foods with a concealed bottle of pesiticides and spraying as much produce as I can...

    You're not so organic now are you?!
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3again, you are missing the whole point of organics. Not that i'd be happy about those extra pesticides, but i, for one, would even buy them after you sprayed them. All the environmental, social and even some of the health advantages of organic farming would still apply:
      1) less fertilizer and pesticides (from the production process) pollute my local environment, food chain, water supplies. I can drink healthier water, breath healthier air, pay less for my tap water (cause less filters have to be used), pay less for my health insurance (less allergies etc.). I can enjoy more bird songs, beautiful butterflies etc...
      2) more family farms, less agro-business (even more so, if i buy locally)
      3) less carbon emissions (even less if i buy LOCALLY AND SEASONAL)
      4)more labour in local whole food compared to wal-mart etc.
      5) I increase the chance for my chlidren and grand-children to live on this beautifull planet as well
  • Murrabbit, on 08/28/2008, -6/+10Spoiler alert: Nearly everything you eat is Organic (with the exception of minerals like salt).
    • TonyTheTerrible, on 08/28/2008, -8/+4Spoiler alert: You're wrong
      • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Not if you're using the chemistry definition of organic.
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -6/+2Actually....not so much. Yes, all produce grows from the dirt, but there's a large difference in how it is grown and handled. Take it from a guy who grew up on a farm.
  • RAEP, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2No. Unless you purchase said "organic" food from your local coop or community garden.
  • Zenham, on 08/28/2008, -5/+3I choose organic whenever I can, for the same reasons I limit my intake of meat: sustainability. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can continue with the factory farm production methodologies infinitely. Then there's the whole pesticide and growth hormone arguments.

    As for using non-organic dairy, we still permit the use of bovine growth hormone (BGH) for increasing the output of dairy cattle; while the FDA and the company that produces BGH claim there are no health risks, "Studies have found links between serum levels of IGF-1 [and] some medical conditions, including breast, prostate and colorectal cancer, a higher risk of diabetes and a shorter lifespan in animal studies" (IGF-1 being a byproduct of BGH use); this from the wikipedia article on BGH.

    The jury may still be out on a number of these issues, but honestly, I'd rather err on the side of caution.
    • jnordb, on 08/28/2008, -3/+1Yeah, I can't drink milk myself, but the hormones they give cattle scare me even more than pesticides.
    • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Why can't we continue "factory farms" forever? We do have technological progress you know, a farming method only needs to be sustainable enough to get to the next method.
      • Zenham, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Our factory farm methods fail in several ways. First, we have centered much of our production in areas that cannot support crops naturally, typically in arid areas which require immense amounts of irrigation.

        Not only do chemical runoffs from pesticides pose a problem, but the soil itself can be an issue; take for example, the Lower Colorado River Basin. The soil there is impregnated with salt deposits, which due to irrigation are leaching into the ground water at a rate of half a million tons a year. They're having to put desal plants in place to try and undo the damage both to the ecosystem and the drinking water sources caused by commercial irrigation.

        Add to that the nature of irrigation itself; draining water from the Colorado River to water crops means the natural balance that once existed is gone, and water is becoming more scarce downriver. There has been a great deal of contention between the southwesternmost states over this in particular.

        Factory farming (in its current incarnation) is geared towards high yields at whatever ecological costs the producers can get away with; there is no impetus for these entities to minimize their amage to the surrounding environment. Water, in particular, is the biggest problem.

        While 75% or so of the earth is covered by water, only around 2% of this is fresh water, and about 70% of that is stored in the polar caps and in glaciers.

        The numbers out there for how much water it takes to produce a pound of beef vary widely; googling just now I saw number ranging from 441 gallons per pound of beef (from the Cattlemen's Association) to 12,000 gallons (from some activist sources, which are taking into account the amount of water used to grow the grains the cattle feed on as well). As with all things I suspect the true number is somewhere in the middle; the numbers I've heard from more equivocal sources are about 780 gallons per pound.

        Milk, according to the googled numbers, takes between 1400 and 2200 gallons of water per gallon of moo juice to produce when including the feed expense.

        Vegetable protein is far less than this, ranging from about 30 gallons per pound of vegetables, to around 160 gallons. I don't have figures for comparing the protein value though of vegetables to beef or other meats, suffice it to say food production takes a great deal more water than we think. Due to the high concentration of animals in factory farming, there is a considerable amount of contamination that occurs from animal excrement and runoff as well.

        We're using up water at such an alarming rate, and there just aren't economical solutions for producing clean water from tainted sources yet.

        And that's just the water requirements! One could add in the fossil fuels used to run farm equipment in our increasingly expensive energy marketplace, the costs associated with refrigeration and processing of foods, packing materials for canned/shelf-stable foods, and so on. There are a lot of line items in this particular equation.

        So, I buy the bulk of my veggies from local growers; I'm lucky enough to live in a city which has a grower's market, but I realize I'm lucky to have such a resource at hand. We've got a long hard road ahead of us, and I'm afraid it's only going to get harder as we go.
      • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Like I said it only needs to be sustainable enough to get to the next technology. Soon we'll be genetically engineering plants so they can grow in less soil, require less water and need less chemicals.
  • belebih, on 08/28/2008, -6/+4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX9Z4nkSMBE

    4:27+ is of particular interest. It's sad how these tree-hugging, gullible assholes fear-monger and outright lie about this ***** while so many people out there would be happy to have /anything/ to eat. It's easy to push for more expensive food to feel better about yourself as long as you have the means to buy it of course. Most people aren't that lucky.
    • Intercon, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Sorry, friend. If you take a look at the entire ecosystem, and the effects of large-scale factory farms on the general health of the planet and every living thing on it (including your dumb ass,) you would quickly realize that the environmentalists are correct. Or maybe you like living in a world that's a cesspool, filled with carcinogenic chemicals, and dead zones in the ocean because of phosphate poisoning in the oceans.

      Get a ***** clue please, because these issues that you dismiss WILL be giving you and your children cancer in the very near future, and WILL completely ruin the world's oceans in the next decade, if that hasn't already been done. ***** you and your wallowing in ignorance. It isn't fear-mongering when the threat is real. And the response of the "tree-huggers" is directly proportional to the utter ***** stupidity of idiots such as you.
      • belebih, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1In the next decade? Mate, people like you have been screaming the sky is falling for many decades already and no doubt many decades to come, and of course it never does. The threat, as you describe it (cesspool world, poisoned oceans, etc.), is not real, but it sure is effective when you want to scare a populace into a money-spending guilt trip.

        I agree that people need to be aware of how a lot of our excesses affect the environment. But I also think it's pretty ***** shallow and self-centered to push for ***** like organic foods, while trying to eliminate gm foods through lies and fear, at the expense of millions of starving people around the world. If you can afford it, fine, but to most people the choice isn't between organic or non-organic, it's between eating or starving, and assholes like you are ignorantly pushing them towards the latter.
  • mynameisrod, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5The article didn't seem to address flavour. From personal experience, there is very little difference between the organic and normal versions of most foods, apart from the supermarket garlic where the organic is superior.
    When it comes to buying chicken, organic/free range chicken tastes much better than intensively reared meat.
  • TheMachine1, on 08/28/2008, -4/+6Things that can not be quantified with real numbers are religion. The increased cost of organic food is undeniable the benefits to a consumer and the environment are unclear. Peoples gut reactions is pesticides and herbicides are bad because they are designed to kill. But they are chemicals that inhibit enzymes in insects and plants. The
    sure probability that a very low concentration of them will interact with different enzymes in animals is quite small. It like expecting a nanogram of asprin to cure a trees headache.
    • Intercon, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2
      What the hell are you talking about? It's a "sure probability" that you have no idea what you're talking about.

      These chemicals are HIGHLY-REGULATED. Why? Because many of them are extremely toxic to humans and animals. Try hitting up this site: http://www.pesticide.org and learning something about these dangerous chemicals and what they do to fish and animal populations.
  • kishosingh, on 08/28/2008, -2/+0What do you think if we use organic food, prices will be down?
  • fms45, on 08/28/2008, -3/+2Eat what you want and can afford -YES
    Ahhhh, gotta love "organic" wether is soaked in alzheimer inducing copper or soaked in fertility destroying pyrethrum.- Unfaithfull!!
    http://gurdian.lookera.net
  • cloudberries, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4I get about half of my vegetables delivered fresh from a local farmer. No pesticides, and covered in 100% real dirt! From the ground!
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1no pesticides? really? did u ask him? and if so, can u trust him? I get your point, but: Just because you know him doesn't necessarily mean he's better than all the rest, does it?
      How can he defy market logic and produce without pesticides while not increasing prices? If he'd produce organically, he'd have to verify his claims at least to a certain extent.

      But at least u can be quite sure about the low carbon footprint...as long as u don't take your car to buy from the farm!

      BUY ORGANIC, LOCAL, SEASONAL...for the biggest health, environmental and social impact...

      ...oh...and less meat of course: not only for the animal's sake, but out of energy/carbon/climate considerations!
  • 0260, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5Norman Borlaug should slap a whole lot of yous. growing organic uses twice more land so there is less food for the ones that are truly hungry.
    • TheEarthlings, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1BS! Organic farming uses 10 to 30 % more, at most, not 100%. If u take into account the degradation of land/soil caused by intensive non-organic farming, the statistic clearly swings in favor of organics.

      Also the global food crisis is not a matter of insufficient food production. According to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, current(!!) production could feed 12 Billion people!!!
      It's all a matter of distribution:
      1) Massive amounts are wasted by the rich (us) either through overconsumption or simply by throwing it away.
      2) Increasingly, food is put into the tank (agro-fuels) instead of hungry mouths
      3) Food is stuffed into animals in order for the rich (us) to eat them. You can feed 8 to 10 people from the amount of grain and soy that is used to "produce" enough meat to feed only one of us meat-eaters.
      • 0260, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1please define "non-organic farming" and how it affects the soil quality.
        1. obviously there is enough land to grow food for everyone, you just have to have the resources to manage it. money, people, etc
        2. you can't blame people for "over consumption" it's not like we steal food from people
        We need to teach people in other countries to get most of their own land through genetically modifying their crops for higher yields, resistance to disease and adding crucial vitamins.
        some of us can spend a little money to buy into the organic trend and feel healty and whatnot. just remember you are supporting an industry like any other.
  • 223Sniper, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5no.
  • tr0y85, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Organic Hot Pockets.
  • enantiodromia, on 08/28/2008, -8/+9To the Whole Foods/organic farming haters out there:

    while you enjoy your 4-day old browning "t-bone" steak from an unknown supplier, sprayed with chemicals and put under special lights so it looks red longer, I will enjoy my "organic" grass-fed beautiful rib-eye, from a world-class ranch no more than 2 hours away, sold to me by an actual butcher who knows what they are talking about, not by some kid whose main job it is to "stock the meat counter with previously frozen chicken breasts".

    while you enjoy your tomatoes which have been genetically modified specifically to last longer on the shelves, I will enjoy the heirloom tomatoes that actually taste good.

    while you suck down your MGD or Bud (whatever was on sale this week), I will be delighted by the Chimay in my glass.

    while you smear that so-called "peanut butter" on your kids sandwich giving them a weeks worth of transfats and hydrogenated oils, my kids will eat peanut butter that has one, and only one, ingredient: peanuts.

    while you enjoy you produce, meat, and bakery goods which have been selected by your grocery stores MBAs for their sheer profitability (aka cheapness), with ZERO regard to where the food may have come from, which farmers had to sell their land because they couldn't compete with ADM and ConAgra, and where the food may have been tainted in the supply chain somewhere in the 8,000 mile journey to your plate, I will feel better knowing that more and more family-owned private farmers are able to finally start making profits again due to the fact that people actually CARE about the quality of the food they eat, not just how "cheap" it was to bring home.

    what you anti-organic "Liberals are stupid for wasting their money" people are not considering, or choose not to consider because it suits you, is that organic farming and distributors, such as Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and all the local gourmet shops, are helping family owned farms, who do not want to sell out to the gigantic food companies, for ethical and personal reasons.

    what boggles my mind is that so-called Socially Conservative people, who talk a good game when it comes to "hard work and sweat should be all someone needs to be a success" and "the common every-day farmer is what made America", actually get UPSET when they see the fruits of these farmers' labors, being sold at a premium, by those who, by their own hard work, can afford them.

    you would rather buy your food from some multinational agricultural and distribution corporation, who usually aims at the bare minimum of what the FDA and USDA will allow, with apparently sub-standard abilities to track where tainted food comes from (see: spinach, tomatoes, green onions, any news story with the words USDA in the tiltle from the last two years), whose profits don't back into the local community, but in some shareholder's hands.

    As a Conservative, don't you WANT to keep money in local communities? Don't you WANT family farmers to keep the land they have owned for generation after generation? Don't you WANT a free market, in which those who have exceptional skills are able to trade their product to whose who have the means to support the purchase? Don't you WANT people with more money to trickle that down to those who work the land because that's who they are and that's what they do? Don't you WANT less government and big business in your refrigerator? Don't you WANT your children to have a future that can include "growing the world's best peaches|onions|cattle" and being recognized for their hard work and talent, and not be some employee number of a company whose HQ is another country, who doesn't re-invest their profits into the local community, and who doesn't see an outbreak of E. Coli as anything more than "an event which slightly lowered 3rd Quarter profits"?

    So seriously, why are you against all of these things? Because you can save $1.00/pound on ground beef? No, I don't think so. I think you are envious of those people who can afford to eat well, so you play the same old tune, where Liberals are idiots for spending so much money, and Conservatives are smart, because they have learned to enjoy eating CRAP.

    By the way, I married into a farming family from the Central Valley of California, so you can save all the comments about me not knowing how farming works. There are plenty of family-owned farmers out there trying to make ends meet, who want to sell YOU the best possible produce.

    You just have to ask for it.
    • covertbadger, on 08/28/2008, -3/+4I live a 5-minute walk from a farm shop, which provides me with fresh meat and dairy, and have a box of veg delivered weekly to cover the gaps that the farm shop can't fill.

      When smug idiots like you start fouling up the place with your holier-than-thou ***** rhetoric, however, I'm embarrassed to have anything whatsoever in common with you. Makes me want to throw the local produce in the bin and grab something from McDonalds, contribute towards some CEO's new yacht and spit at the local community. Please shut the hell up, you're making the rest of us look bad.
      • enantiodromia, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2don't worry buddy, you have nothing to do with me at all.

        i think it's funny though that even though you apparently live in a farming community, you still think its "holier than thou" to claim organic food grown by family-owned farms is better and worth the extra cost.
      • covertbadger, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3I didn't call you holier-than-thou for saying fresh organic food is superior - I agree with that completely, which is why I happily pay the premium. I called you holier-than-thou for the smug condescending attitude with which you lord it over those who don't eat organic - either by choice or by circumstance - and your arrogant assumption that people who make different decisions to you must be envious of your financial means.
    • D3ADBOLT, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1And while you'll waste your money. I will point and laugh at you.
      • enantiodromia, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1And while your family's health declines, I'm sure somehow I I won't care.
      • Mothrog, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1"And while your family's health declines, I'm sure somehow I I won't care."

        Since when have placebos positively affected health?
    • Mothrog, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1Ah, the wonderful world of marketing has worked its magic on you. FYI, plenty of those "organic" foods you have such a hard on for are also made by big corporations, idiot.

      http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-stores/organic ...
      • enantiodromia, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1well gosh there pumpkin, did you not read my post, or did you not understand it?

        how many more times did i have to say "family-owned farms" for you to understand that I was talking primarily about, family-owned farms?

        let me say it a few more times, since i just looked at your user name and remembered how many other concepts you have trouble with:

        family-owned farms,
        family-owned farms,
        family-owned farms,
        family-owned farms

        did it stick yet... idiot?
      • Mothrog, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1You can say family farms as many times as you want to retard, it doesn't change the fact that the ***** organic food you're buying from probably didn't come from one.
    • chaiwalla, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5I have two young boys and I refuse to feed them crappy food full of poisons that will pollute the environment that they will have to live in. I can afford organic food if I don't fill my life with time wasting gadgets. So my kids eat very well, but don't have xboxes or ipods. We support local farmers by belonging to a CSA.

      Why do people get so upset that some of us appreciate the quality of the food we eat and do not want to destroy the environment?

      Read The Omnivore's Dilemma. It explains a lot. We were not designed to eat the modern diet based on industrial corn and soybeans.
      • enantiodromia, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Chaiwalla,

        I think when it comes down to it, people are either too stupid to realize that eating crap and poison is bad for them, or can't afford to eat well.
      • chaiwalla, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1That this topic opened an argument is interesting though. I pay extra for organic whole foods, so that I am not poisoning myself or my family. It is the people who support the huge corporation run food industry that are angry at me for not polluting their environment. On top of that, they think I am the one being duped by industry.

        The world will never run out of irony at this rate.
  • neug, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3It is also (at least in Europe it is) true that there are different minimum requirements in e.g. animal treatment between in organic and non-organic production. The article was fairly good, but focused entirely on one's health, and did not take into account that when somebody buys more expensive organic food, she's also paying for the better treatment of animals involved and for less contaminated nature.
  • Paramnesia, on 08/28/2008, -3/+4Using Pesticides is not the same as Organic (Natural) food. Its counter part, GM (Genetically Motherf**ked), retains LESS vitamins, minerals and overall nutrition than Natural food. These are just the discovered differences.

    No one has been able to explain to me why I have so much difficulty with digestion in Canada and not in Europe and the middle east on trips, eating the same damn food.

    Buried as inaccurate.




    • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3Every independent scientific study on the subject has concluded that GM poses no danger to either human or the environment. Additionally there are proposals to modify crops so they contain MORE minerals.
      • Intercon, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1*****. Cite your source.

        ***** Monsanto. Genetic modification has been around as long as humans have cultivated plants for food. Gene-splicing to create corn crops and soybean crops that don't bear seeds, just to increase seed sales, is ***** insanity. When geneitc modification is used to increase the bottom line of Fortune 500 companies, at the expense of farmers and consumers, then we have a VERY SERIOUS problem.
      • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2He's an example of modifying food to be better for people.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice
        The no independent study thing was mentioned in this speech.
        http://www.newmedia.ufm.edu.gt/asx/developing.asx
  • Tyeband, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3There's a better way to enjoy good vegetables and fruit - grow your own. Healthy exercise with no pesticides and no transport costs.
    http://www.fromtots2teens.com/obesity.html
  • Mageant, on 08/28/2008, -4/+3Since I switched to eating all organic (and at least 50% raw) I feel much healthier. The better taste also encourages me to maintain this diet. I get a feeling of being slightly more happier all the time, too.
    • blast_flame, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Besides the problems with organic foods you do know that humans have evolved to eat cooked things right? Eating raw food you run a serious infection risk. Also it sound to me like your increased happiness is nothing more than a placebo effect (you think it will make you happier so it does).
      • wunksta, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1cooking also destroys a lot of the nutritional content of food

        cooking is important to prevent disease but it isnt imperative in all cases
    • chaiwalla, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Many of the health benefits you feel will not pay off for many years, especially if you feed your kids organic foods.
  • guhpol, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Yes!!
  • zdiggler, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3I don't believe in that Organic Hype.. I only tries to buy from local farmers when I can.
    • chaiwalla, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1It looks like you don't believe in grammar or punctuation either.
  • triferlinks, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Down here in florida and a few states coming soon we have an organic pizza shop called "pizza fusion that serves all natural and organic products. the only items from the "dont consider" list are chicken, shrimp/lobster, and olive oil, and being a guy whose been loyal to this company for years, I agree, they arent very different, though i cant speak for the seafoods.
  • reqage, on 08/28/2008, -5/+4No. I ate at some organic place yesterday and it's the biggest scam I've ever seen. Plus, the placed was filled with hippies.
  • jessehadden, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3My health has increased considerably since I've started eating organic. You're not going to convince me that there's no difference -- but you can go right on eating your food-like substance if you prefer! Also, I live in the pacific north-west, so right now, local organic food is costing about the same or less than the mass-produced stuff being shipped in to the big chain stores. Make no mistake; if it weren't for lots and lots of subsidies (to more than one industry), "organic" would be synonymous with inexpensive.
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